
Zhaira Costiniano Let’s begin with your early career and your involvement in the Pattern and Design movement. What drew you to that style, and how did you find yourself immersed in the movement?
Dee Shapiro I began working on paper by drawing lines that looked like fabric such as tweeds. Simple strokes in rolls of paper. At that time I was interested in how math related to pattern, counting stitches in knitting for example. Further research took me to the Fibonacci system of numbers that had to do with the Golden Mean and how that related to pattern in all of nature. I began color coding the numbers and saw how pattern developed. From there is was all pattern on a grid. Squeezed paint out of pastry tubes created texture. They were seen as rugs, weaving, and beading. I was interested in the women’s movement and its association with women artists in particular. The P&D championed dispelling the difference between craft and fine art. I became involved with that group also through Heresies.
Dee Shapiro I began working on paper by drawing lines that looked like fabric such as tweeds. Simple strokes in rolls of paper. At that time I was interested in how math related to pattern, counting stitches in knitting for example. Further research took me to the Fibonacci system of numbers that had to do with the Golden Mean and how that related to pattern in all of nature. I began color coding the numbers and saw how pattern developed. From there is was all pattern on a grid. Squeezed paint out of pastry tubes created texture. They were seen as rugs, weaving, and beading. I was interested in the women’s movement and its association with women artists in particular. The P&D championed dispelling the difference between craft and fine art. I became involved with that group also through Heresies.
ZC Since that period of time, have you approached art differently? In your experience, how has the art world changed since then?
DS Women artists were beginning to make noise. Judy Chicago and Miriam Schapiro we’re out there on both coasts encouraging women to get together. There were cooperative galleries, particularly AIR in Soho. I kept working and began works off the grid using geometry and other images. I was lucky enough to show at AIR and came to the attention of a collector who introduced me to a gallerist, Andre Zarre. I showed with him for many years until he retired three years ago. It was easier for me to have my work out in the world through the gallery. Today, there seems to be hundreds more artists and many more galleries but difficult to get representation. Rents are exorbitant and galleries are closing. There is also the cult of celebrity in the art world. Young artists are beginning to take matters into their own hands and opening galleries with other artists. I think this situation with Covid is going to change things in the art world in some creative way. |

ZC More on the virus. How has it affected you and your art? As seen in "From a Distance", you've clearly made art in reaction to the pandemic. Do you find yourself to be more creative during this time, facing creative block, or is it business as usual?
DS Actually, I have tremendous anxiety. I have two kids who are doctors, grandchildren who are doing their best with school technology but don’t know if summer work or programs they were looking forward to will happen. I find that the days go very fast as I immerse myself in work. It is a great distraction to focus on my work. I would be working regardless, now I have no time restraints, no meetings, no social involvements, food shopping and whatever else takes me out of the studio. In that way, besides my angst for everyone, I am lucky. Yes, I responded to Covid in my pieces. That helped a bit. Still have anger issues and concerns but I am back to following through with my latest project with reworked figures from iconic nudes. I am not optimistic about a fast and easy return even to the “new normal”. I am taking a bit of time to do some writing that I have been trying to do for years..an artist book about my grandmother, her mother and grandmother.
PS: There are devoted dealers like Susan and Jordan who are incredible supporters of artists. They are rare birds.
ZC I find that all very relatable, although I don't have creating art to fall back on.
Coming from someone with such a rich background as yourself, that's quite a compliment. Jordan and Susan have taken all of this with such amazing stride. I am so grateful to be apart of their team at a time like this.
Can we talk more about this artist book you are working on? What exactly does it entail?
DS Actually, I have tremendous anxiety. I have two kids who are doctors, grandchildren who are doing their best with school technology but don’t know if summer work or programs they were looking forward to will happen. I find that the days go very fast as I immerse myself in work. It is a great distraction to focus on my work. I would be working regardless, now I have no time restraints, no meetings, no social involvements, food shopping and whatever else takes me out of the studio. In that way, besides my angst for everyone, I am lucky. Yes, I responded to Covid in my pieces. That helped a bit. Still have anger issues and concerns but I am back to following through with my latest project with reworked figures from iconic nudes. I am not optimistic about a fast and easy return even to the “new normal”. I am taking a bit of time to do some writing that I have been trying to do for years..an artist book about my grandmother, her mother and grandmother.
PS: There are devoted dealers like Susan and Jordan who are incredible supporters of artists. They are rare birds.
ZC I find that all very relatable, although I don't have creating art to fall back on.
Coming from someone with such a rich background as yourself, that's quite a compliment. Jordan and Susan have taken all of this with such amazing stride. I am so grateful to be apart of their team at a time like this.
Can we talk more about this artist book you are working on? What exactly does it entail?
DS Right now I am researching the 1800’s in Warsaw, Poland. I am imagining life for middle class Jews as all I have of family history is a name and place. My grandmother lived until 105 yrs old and interviewed her on tape when she was 80 and the again in her 90’s. Her immigrant experience and her early life was fascinating to me. At this stage it is about writing it all down and filling in what I am making up. So I envision perhaps an accordion book with text and images, drawings, objects, folding sand more. I have done a few small artist books in the past. You can see them on my website.
ZC You mentioned change in the art world earlier in this conversation. What do you think that entails in our “new normal”? Do you think experiencing art will become more digital rather than physically going to galleries or museums? |
DS Yes, for some time people will still not want to be out much. Digital media will become even stronger and broader...worldwide. Influences from all over might change direction for some artist and when there is a more comfortable time to be out, more artists will take control. Financial considerations will be less significant in the digital world. Business closings might make space less costly for artists to open galleries. It’s all speculation.